Equipment Customization

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What should the name of our equipment customizers be?

Gems
0
No votes
Jewels
0
No votes
Vasgards
1
5%
Periapts
4
20%
Crystals
2
10%
Shards
9
45%
Cabochon
1
5%
Churinga
0
No votes
Keystone
3
15%
 
Total votes: 20
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Roots
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Equipment Customization

Postby Roots » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:12 am

This is the idea I mentioned in another thread that roos reminded me about. The idea is simple, yet effective. It is pretty much the same as the Materia system in FFVII in that all weapons/armor have "slots" that different materia can be put into to learn/use different spells. But instead of materia and learning spells/skills, we replace that with gems and stat bonuses or status effects. So I guess its more like Diablo II really. :heh:


What are the reasons for doing this?

1) The user has more control over the customization of their characters, which is a welcome addition for many people.

2) Weapons/Armor are no longer solely chosen based on their attack/defense rating, but on the number of slots they support

3) Increases the number of strategic options at the character's disposal


So it's pretty much a win-win situation I think, and the downsides of doing this are few and not all that important. But *a lot* of fleshing out of this idea is needed. Here are some questions we need to ask ourselves.


Is there a better name/item than "gems"?
Gems is a very generic/boring term. I think it would be nice if we could come up with a unique name (ie, vasgards) and artistic design to them.

What exactly are these "gems" in terms of the story-line?
It makes it pretty dull if the player is in the game and then "oh yeah there's these gems you stick them on and wham, power-up". I would like for there to be some sort of background/story to them.

What can you attach gems to?
Can you attach gems to all pieces of armor as well as your weapon? That seems like it might be over-kill to me, because we have 4 armor types (for the four attack points on a character: head, body, arms, legs) so if we have say 4 slots at one point for each piece of armor and a character's weapon, that's 20 slots/gems the player has to manage. :eyespin: Seems too tedious to me, so maybe we should either keep the gem slot count way down (3 tops), or maybe only allow gems on certain equipment.

Can gems be removed/rearranged/retached?
IMHO: yes. It's annoying (in Diablo II) when you find a super-great gem and attach it to your weapon, and then soon after find a great new weapon, but you can't remove your gem from the old one. I like having complete control over my equipment.

Should gems/slots all be considered the same, or could there be special conditions?
For example, maybe gems and slots have up to three levels. A level 3 slot can hold level 3 gems and lower, while a level 1 slot can only hold level 1 gems. It could make the gem/slot system more interesting perhaps. :shrug: Also maybe some pieces of equipment don't allow certain slots (ie, can't equip ice gems on a fire sword). Or maybe there are no restrictions, and you literally create a fire sword by attaching fire gems to a regular sword.

Should gems be able to enhance each other's power when placed on the same piece of equipment?
Example: Place two 5% lightning damage gems on your axe, and when used together you get a bonus of 12-15% damage instead of just 10%.



And that's just for starters! What do you guys think of this idea? I like it because it gives the customization freaks more of what they want and can also make things a little more interesting. My only concern is introducing too much complexity into the game than there already is, because I've personally experienced that and it wasn't too much fun at first (Tales of Symphonia). So maybe gems can be introduced later into the game after the player is already used to other aspects of the game's system? :shrug: Just a thought.


Okay, I'm done talking for now. :axe:
Last edited by Roots on Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Equipment Customization

Postby Jetryl » Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:17 pm

Roots wrote:Is there a better name/item than "gems"?
Gems is a very generic/boring term. I think it would be nice if we could come up with a unique name (ie, vasgards) and artistic design to them.


Periapt - n.  An item worn as a charm or amulet.

An obscure enough term that it would be entirely appropriate to have them as an item "attached to one's equipment" as a charm or amulet.

Roots wrote:What exactly are these "gems" in terms of the story-line?
It makes it pretty dull if the player is in the game and then "oh yeah there's these gems you stick them on and wham, power-up". I would like for there to be some sort of background/story to them.


Good idea to have a story, but I'm leery of trying to make one since most people don't like my stories. :(
Or maybe that's just people from wesnoth...

Roots wrote:What can you attach gems to?
Can you attach gems to all pieces of armor as well as your weapon? That seems like it might be over-kill to me, because we have 4 armor types (for the four attack points on a character: head, body, arms, legs) so if we have say 4 slots at one point for each piece of armor and a character's weapon, that's 20 slots/gems the player has to manage. :eyespin: Seems too tedious to me, so maybe we should either keep the gem slot count way down (3 tops), or maybe only allow gems on certain equipment.


Uh, I'd say just make different items have different potentials, eg - no gems on the pants/boots, several gems in objects held by the hands, and one gem for the forehead (potentially some for the body).

Justification for this could come from some chi/internal energy thing about the hands being very important, and other parts of the body not so much so...

Roots wrote:Can gems be removed/rearranged/retached?
IMHO: yes. It's annoying (in Diablo II) when you find a super-great gem and attach it to your weapon, and then soon after find a great new weapon, but you can't remove your gem from the old one. I like having complete control over my equipment.


Oh god yes - that was the most aggravating feature in that game.

That said, diablo DID have a very good feature in your ability to combine low-level gems into single high-level ones via your magic box - if you have lots of low-level gems in your game, a similar system would be dandy.

Roots wrote:Should gems/slots all be considered the same, or could there be special conditions?
For example, maybe gems and slots have up to three levels. A level 3 slot can hold level 3 gems and lower, while a level 1 slot can only hold level 1 gems.  It could make the gem/slot system more interesting perhaps. :shrug: Also maybe some pieces of equipment don't allow certain slots (ie, can't equip ice gems on a fire sword). Or maybe there are no restrictions, and you literally create a fire sword by attaching fire gems to a regular sword.


It's a good idea to allow people to attach gems to semi-mundane weapons (the weapon would need slots, though).

It's also a good idea to have sensible restrictions - not all elements should have opposites, but those that do should not be combinable - no fire and ice, no light and shadow, no fire and water, etc.

Roots wrote:Should gems be able to enhance each other's power when placed on the same piece of equipment?
Example: Place two 5% lightning damage gems on your axe, and when used together you get a bonus of 12-15% damage instead of just 10%.


Yes, and the reverse should also be true - no combining say ... Fire and Ice gems - they'd cancel each other out.  Now, you *could*, say, put your fire gems on the sword, and the ice gems on the shield, but not on the same item.

I really stress this, since I think it's dumb as all get out when combining them is possible.
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Postby roos » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:12 pm

Yes, I like the idea... (A) because it adds more strategy, and (B) because of the "cool" factor... ("COOL, I just got a gem that gives me +50% HP! This game rocks!") :D

Errr.... I suck badly at coming up with names. Let's see... Well, there are a lot of generic names like "crystal", "shard", etc. I agree w/ Roots, it'd be nice if they had some kind of backstory, and maybe the name could be derived from that. For example, if we say that gems are actually scales that were shed by dragons, then they might be called "dragonshards" :shrug:
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Postby Burnsaber » Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:15 pm

Seems like cool feature. I like Roots idea on that 2 fire gems have better effect than just two fire gem bonuses added together. Maybe you could take this effect a bit further? Maybe some gems on same item can produce "combos"?

Something like this:

One fire gem -> +X% fire damage
Two fire gems -> +3X% Fire damage
Three fire Gems -> +5X% fire damage and chance to make opponents catch flame!
One fire gem + mind gem -> weapon of berserking
One water gem + mind gem -> weapon of sleep
1 fire gem + 1 ice gem (or other "opposite gems") -> weapon of chaos
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Postby visage » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:03 pm

ff7 did it first with "materia", didn't they, in a sense?  The idea of equiping a gem sort of thing to add more "skills," whether they be actual attacks or stat boosters?

Personally, I like the idea of customization in armor through items you find or make, though there would definitely need to be a back story to these items.  What gives a little gem such tremendous power?  Personally, if a little gem could help me cast "fireball," I would use those gems to open a home heating company =D
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Re: Equipment Customization

Postby eleazar » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:04 pm

Roots wrote:What can you attach gems to?
Can you attach gems to all pieces of armor as well as your weapon? That seems like it might be over-kill to me, because we have 4 armor types (for the four attack points on a character: head, body, arms, legs) so if we have say 4 slots at one point for each piece of armor and a character's weapon, that's 20 slots/gems the player has to manage. :eyespin: Seems too tedious to me, so maybe we should either keep the gem slot count way down (3 tops), or maybe only allow gems on certain equipment.
Three is a good number for the max slots on any item. However, i'd make weapons with slots very rare in the beginning of the game. Maybe just Claudius' sword has 1 slot. But you shouldn't be able to just stick a gem on a cheap piece of equipment. The player doesn't need to be learn about slots while he's learning everything else. And if slots are withheld, they seem more special. A 3-slot piece of equipment should be rather special. There's no reason that the player should be able to completely outfit his team in 3-slot equipment.

Roots wrote:Can gems be removed/rearranged/retached?
IMHO: yes. It's annoying (in Diablo II) when you find a super-great gem and attach it to your weapon, and then soon after find a great new weapon, but you can't remove your gem from the old one. I like having complete control over my equipment.

Definitely allow removal, at least under certain circumstances. If you wanted to limit it, the removal could only be performed by characters with a certain skill, and/or only at magical forges.

Roots wrote:Should gems/slots all be considered the same, or could there be special conditions?
For example, maybe gems and slots have up to three levels. A level 3 slot can hold level 3 gems and lower, while a level 1 slot can only hold level 1 gems.  It could make the gem/slot system more interesting perhaps. :shrug: Also maybe some pieces of equipment don't allow certain slots (ie, can't equip ice gems on a fire sword). Or maybe there are no restrictions, and you literally create a fire sword by attaching fire gems to a regular sword.

I might make different levels of gems. Making different levels of slots, just sounds tedious IMHO.

Roots wrote:Should gems be able to enhance each other's power when placed on the same piece of equipment?
Example: Place two 5% lightning damage gems on your axe, and when used together you get a bonus of 12-15% damage instead of just 10%.

Sure. It gives you a good reason to go with a double.

Origin
The gems and slotted equipment are the remnants of past civilization(s). They were designed for each other, and originally all slotted equipment had a full compliment of gems. But over time many of the gems were separated from the equipment and scattered around the world.
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Re: Equipment Customization

Postby Roots » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:39 am

Jetryl wrote:
Roots wrote:Is there a better name/item than "gems"?
Gems is a very generic/boring term. I think it would be nice if we could come up with a unique name (ie, vasgards) and artistic design to them.


Periapt - n. An item worn as a charm or amulet.

An obscure enough term that it would be entirely appropriate to have them as an item "attached to one's equipment" as a charm or amulet.


Its a good suggestion, but kind of hard to remember how to spell/say though. :| What about keystone? Or manastone?
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Postby gorzuate » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:49 am

I like periapt :angel:
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Postby eleazar » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:55 am

"cabochon"
a gem polished but not faceted

"churinga"
sacred amulet of Australian aborigines.
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Postby turin » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:27 am

Periapt seems rather easy to remember to me... I like it. Keystones is good too, if you want a name that's less obscure.
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Postby Jetryl » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:49 am

turin wrote:Periapt seems rather easy to remember to me... I like it. Keystones is good too, if you want a name that's less obscure.


Periapt is also a genuine english word™, right up there with amulet, or talisman. It's one of the archaic words which have been resurrected by "fantasy media" for modern use; however, it's not quite as over-used as other words.

I have seen it used in at least one game - in spiderweb software's "Exile", the player could find a "Periapt of Healing". It was a baseball-sized, orange gem, which pulsed as though it was alive. The player would find it in a very remote, tiny cave, on a body that had evidently been lying there for thousands of years; a relic of some forgotten civilization that had made it. Using it would cast one of the most powerful healing spells in the game.



The benefit of using a genuine english word is that we're teaching the players a real word from their language (if they don't already know it), rather than making one up that's meaningless anywhere else; our meaning of it is basically correct to the definition.


Roots wrote:Its a good suggestion, but kind of hard to remember how to spell/say though.


Pronounce it like a japanese word written in romaji.
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Postby ChopperDave » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:29 pm

I have seen it used in at least one game - in spiderweb software's "Exile", the player could find a "Periapt of Healing". It was a baseball-sized, orange gem, which pulsed as though it was alive. The player would find it in a very remote, tiny cave, on a body that had evidently been lying there for thousands of years; a relic of some forgotten civilization that had made it. Using it would cast one of the most powerful healing spells in the game.


It's used a lot in any D&D-based computer game.

The only problem with using periapt is that it implies that its not just a jewel but a complete artifact that serves some sort of purpose. I think it's cool word to use instead of amulet, but it doesn't seem right to use it to represent raw materials. For that w can use 'ore', 'mineral', or 'opal'. Just a few ideas.
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Postby Roots » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:19 pm

I kind of like 'shard', since its simple to pronounce and not seen often in games. We could reason that shards are small carvings off of (rare) stones around the world that have imbued magical properties. :shrug:
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Postby Jetryl » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:46 am

Roots wrote:I kind of like 'shard', since its simple to pronounce and not seen often in games. We could reason that shards are small carvings off of (rare) stones around the world that have imbued magical properties. :shrug:


Shard sounds cool. :approve:
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Postby Roots » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:58 am

Blah! I'm tired of speculating about names so I put up a poll. Vote for your favorite word. I listed every single one that has been proposed thus far. Only one (vasgards) is completely original and not in a dictionary.


Its kind of important that we decide on a name soon, because I'm tired of not knowing what to write when I talk about this stuff in the code/wiki/forums/whatever. :bash:
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Postby Roots » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:56 am

Bleh, still a tie between shards and periapts. Do I need to exert the dictator command of authority (TM) so we reach a decision? :devil:


I thinks slots/shards sounds a lot better than slots/periapts personally. ;)
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Postby Rain » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:12 am

Shard...that reminds me of dark crystal. ;) Very good thing and not ever used in games. I think I will go with shard. Sorry, no cobochon.
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Postby Jetryl » Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:54 am

Roots wrote:Bleh, still a tie between shards and periapts. Do I need to exert the dictator command of authority (TM) so we reach a decision? :devil:


I thinks slots/shards sounds a lot better than slots/periapts personally. ;)


As the guy who proposed "periapt", I'll cede to "shard". "Shard" it is.
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Postby EmreBFG » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:16 am

I'll have to vote 'shard' as well. The only gaming reference I've encountered with 'shard' are private Ultima Online servers which are called 'shards' of the main game. Anyway, :heh:
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Postby Roots » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:34 am

Shard it is then. Feels good to come to a decision on something around here. :heh:
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