Demo 0.2.0 -- Beta Test

A discussion area for general design issues that staff would like detailed feedback on.

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VS
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Postby VS » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:07 pm

rujasu wrote: info about your platform/settings

Sorry ... 32-bit Windows XP, screen resolution 1024*768, Allacrost in 800*600, Radeon X550.
MrDowntempo
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Postby MrDowntempo » Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:57 pm

I'm running feisty. The data deb installed fine, but the demo deb says I'm missing libc6 (which I'm not). So I can't get it to install :(
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Re: Compilation

Postby kess » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:06 pm

ettin wrote:I just posted the Debian packages in my previous post (http://www.allacrost.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20239#20239)... not sure if they will work fine on Ubuntu, but feel free to try and report ;)

How could I miss that!

You made my day recently with the libluabind packages as well. :bow: Big smile. (I doubt there would be any trouble with the debs in Ubuntu, but if I run into any I’ll be sure to mention them.)

[edit] I have the same unresolved dependency problems as MrDowntempo above, the newer chain of C packages are only available in the coming version of Ubuntu (Gutsy).
Last edited by kess on Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
AMDmi3
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Postby AMDmi3 » Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:41 pm

Soooo good! Builds and works perfectly on FreeBSD 6.1, i386.
I'm ready to update the port right after the official release.
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gorzuate
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Postby gorzuate » Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:46 am

Rain wrote:Bugs?

In the cave:

*The first set of stairs are a bit difficult to climb. It seems that you have to be EXACTLY straight on the stairs in order to go up them.

*There are also a few areas on the walk to the boss battle where you can possibly get stuck. Its after the staircase in the topmost part of the screen, specifically the parts of the Northeast corner of the cave, next to the pit. I had a bit of trouble trying to get through here, but it only happened once so perhaps Gorzuate has dealt with the initial issues with cave maps that I ran across last night.


No, I didn't clean up these issues in the maps. This is a result of how collision detection is handled. Basically Claudius' collision rectangle is just slightly smaller than the width of the tiles. Before implementing free-range motion, this wasn't a problem, since you'd always be dead-center on a tile when you stopped. But with free-range motion, you basically have to line yourself up exactly in order to get through. The problem is making the size of the collision rectangle "just right". Make it too big and you get stuck, but make it too small and you may not collide with things that you're supposed to collide with. :|

Rain wrote:In Town: (much less notable)

*Characters will sometimes get 'stuck', especially the boy and Livia, who have a tendency to dry hump walls with great vigour!

*Laila spins around in circles.


These are actually features :D No seriously, they are. They were meant to show we have the capability to make sprites do things other than just walk around; the best part being that this is all implemented via scripting, so it can change from map to map and sprite to sprite very easily. None of it's hard-coded, and none of it's a bug.

That being said, we may want to change the scripted animations to something more obvious and less prone to being identified as a bug for the actual release.

Rain wrote:Additional thoughts:

*This demo is looking pretty sharp!


Damn straight! :)
I'm pumped :D
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Rain
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Postby Rain » Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:21 am

I have been less than thrilled with Loodwig's cave mix. The music is good but the mix really is a strain. I know he is going to want to kick me in the balls but I would like to replace the cave theme with something a little more showroom ready. I had some free time today, so I decided to write a new cave theme that will fit better with the Allacrost thematic.

I went for something a little more Mitsuda/Uematsu-ish. :D

The title of the piece is "Venturing dragons in the Dark"

http://www.allacrost.org/staff/user/rain/CaveTheme.mp3

http://www.allacrost.org/staff/user/rain/CaveTheme.ogg


Loodwig, before you bite my nuts off, I fully intend to make good use of your theme. :) At the moment though, I can't wait around for you to send that Reason file and I really don't feel that the cave theme is presentable. Its too hard on the ears. Pshew.

gorzuate wrote:The problem is making the size of the collision rectangle "just right". Make it too big and you get stuck, but make it too small and you may not collide with things that you're supposed to collide with. :|
Crap. I don't know how you guys do it. It sounds like you kinda have to be a masochist to be a programmer. Good luck getting everything to fit properly! It'll work out okay with a little tinkering no doubt. :)

These are actually features :D No seriously, they are. They were meant to show we have the capability to make sprites do things other than just walk around; the best part being that this is all implemented via scripting, so it can change from map to map and sprite to sprite very easily. None of it's hard-coded, and none of it's a bug.
...I see. :D Nevermind then.

stenny wrote:Still love that piece. About the looping. Let the last note last some longer (double the duration or something). And the problem is probably the reverb or whatever effects you used are cut off as soon as the piece restarts (the echoing of a note for example. The note may be finished but the echoing still goes on).
Hey, thanks Stenny. Glad to see you drop by. :)

I am not quite sure what you mean about doubling the duration.
The reverb is probably the main issue with the awkward transition points. I am not sure how to taper it off on the audio file so that there is a seemless transition. ARGGh.
'When Zeon lost his powers, he fell to Earth, and created a giant crator where he hit. His moan destroyed the mountains and the crater was buried by the debris.'

(of Zeon)

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stenny
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Postby stenny » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:23 pm

Now the last note lasts for 2 beats? 1 beat? make it four beats. Or you could use a fade out. Maybe only for the reverb.

Try something out :P
AMDmi3
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Postby AMDmi3 » Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:56 pm

Btw, it's possible for final monster pack to appear multiple times, because you can speak with that guy in the cave infinitely, and dialogue just goes round and round.

I guess it would be better for characters to repeat last thing they've said instead of rewinding and repeating the whole dialogue. From the point of NPC designers, that last phrase should be summary of information this specific NPC provides to a player.
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prophile
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Postby prophile » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:42 pm

Would it not be simpler just to put a collision circle at Claudius's feet?
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Roots
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Postby Roots » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:00 pm

AMDmi3 wrote:Btw, it's possible for final monster pack to appear multiple times, because you can speak with that guy in the cave infinitely, and dialogue just goes round and round.


This is intentional. Its so that the player can fight the boss battle multiple times if they like (otherwise they'd have to restart the demo all over again :ohnoes: ).

AMDmi3 wrote:I guess it would be better for characters to repeat last thing they've said instead of rewinding and repeating the whole dialogue. From the point of NPC designers, that last phrase should be summary of information this specific NPC provides to a player.


Certainly true, but that's something we'll have to wait for future demos to see. I don't consider this a major issue for this release to address, and we want to hurry up and finish this demo already. :eyespin: :heh:
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Roots
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Postby Roots » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:46 pm

VS wrote:The keyboard help is very useful, but I'd like to see it when I want - after pressing F1 or so.


I also wanted this feature, but it will have to wait for another release

VS wrote:Cobalt helmet description is misspelled - one more L.


Cobalt is a metallic element and the color of the helmet reflects this. There is no spelling error.

VS wrote:Why can I attack myself? :axe:


I didn't even know this was possible. :angel: :heh:

When using potions in inventory screen, at the point where I select party member, something keeps flickering to the left of potion icon (probably previous cursor "on stack").

VS wrote:When I walk horizontally, the merchant slides slightly (about 5px) to and fro it this direction. (rounding errors?)


Probably has something to do with a known OpenGL "pixel perfect" bug that we've been dealing with for some time. Unfortunately, we're currently at the best state that we can be in for this release, because we've already invested a lot of time and effort into ameliorating this issue.



Thanks for all the reports though VS (and to the rest of you as well). We're in the last sprint now and we should be releasing the final demo within a few hours. Look forward to it :approve:
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AMDmi3
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Postby AMDmi3 » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:13 am

Btw, why not make sane keyboard layout as default? I.e. enter=confirm, esc=cancel&menu? This F/D/S layout is really strange..
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Roots
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Postby Roots » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:18 am

*sigh* How many times is the keyboard layout topic going to come up? The answer is because: you shouldn't have to move your hand across the keyboard to hit different commands. Right hand is on the arrow keys, so left hand needs to be available to hit 6 other keys for the commands. yes, its unintuitive, but its not without a purpose.
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Jetryl
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Postby Jetryl » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:31 am

Roots wrote:*sigh* How many times is the keyboard layout topic going to come up? The answer is because: you shouldn't have to move your hand across the keyboard to hit different commands. Right hand is on the arrow keys, so left hand needs to be available to hit 6 other keys for the commands. yes, its unintuitive, but its not without a purpose.


Because you're fighting against a massively-accepted standard? :axe:
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Postby rujasu » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:32 am

I found the ASDF configuration a little unintuitive the first time I played the demo, but honestly, with as much as I have to test this game, I appreciate having it as the default. It's a much easier control system once you're used to it, for the reasons Roots just mentioned.
AMDmi3
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Postby AMDmi3 » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:44 am

Roots wrote:*sigh* How many times is the keyboard layout topic going to come up? The answer is because: you shouldn't have to move your hand across the keyboard to hit different commands. Right hand is on the arrow keys, so left hand needs to be available to hit 6 other keys for the commands. yes, its unintuitive, but its not without a purpose.


Ahh. Sorry, I haven't read much through forum yet. Well, I understand the idea (I use vim editor myself), but for the game it's more important to have intuitive layout and don't make use learn a new one, I think. The speed of entering commands isn't that important here... Anyway, I'll go read past discussions of this for now.

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