Battle Design Topics

A discussion area for general design issues that staff would like detailed feedback on.

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Postby Sylon » Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:43 pm

Roots wrote:Only Allacrost != Earth, so we're either going to have to name our own planets/constellation bodies or come up with "summon spirits" or something else.


Yeah I'd rather have us name our own planets if we do that.  I like thinking in terms of fantasy!
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Postby visage » Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:37 pm

Roots wrote:Okie doke, I finally read your calculations post. Here are my thoughts:
> For requiring certain stats for equipping weapons & armor: :|
The idea sounds cool, and it certainly worked for Diablo, but I don't feel that we need it in Allacrost. The reason why it was good in Diablo was because there was only one town which you could visit at any time, and especially in multiplayer mode it would be too easy to just swipe super-duper armor from a high level player and turn a lower-level player into a god.

Fucking Armor of the Whale (by the way, I think that should be in allacrost :D)

Roots wrote:In Allacrost, certain weapons and armor are sold across various towns, and the further the player gets into the game, the better the equipment they can buy. I don't see how this system is going to do much for us at all, except potentially frusterate players. :| :shrug:

Okay, but how does it make sense that Claudius can use "ENORMOUS SWORD OF DEATH!" ... as well as Lailia?  Why should Claudius be able to use "REALLY  POWERFUL PUZZLE OF DEATH" when he is intellectually unable to use it?

Perhaps the player can still equip the items, but if the player is too weak, they cannot conduct any skills that use the weapon (they literally cannot lift it), and if they don't have the intellectual level, none of the elemental things work (they don't have the intelligence to understand how to use the elemental properties on the item)

Thoughts?

Roots wrote:> For having a base state of 0 with no armor: :|
I see your point (HP amount == natural defense) but I still don't quite agree. How then, do we make a character who has a natural strong phyiscal resistance but a weak magical resistance? (Imagine a bulky warrior) And then how do I create a character with high mag defense, but low natural defense? In your system, you simply can't because defense is all about armor. :( Sure, you could set both characters with a high HP, but you couldn't make a magician appear to be resistant to magic and a warrior resistant to physical, unless you supplied very specific armors to each of them.


Okay, well, perhaps instead of a general "defense" stat, like you are recommending, each character could have a list of physical resistances and elemental resistances that come into play for every time they have to defend.  Then, the original "armor," which is just flesh, could have stats of all 0.

These stats would increase with levels, just like others.

You make a good point that I overlooked, and it makes perfect sense to allow for what you said.  Does my solution sound good?

Roots wrote:Same thing with weapons. Do I suddenly become super-strong once I have this giant sword? Is that all that matters is the weapons I choose to use, and not the nature of the character? I see where you were going with this (and I admit that with requiring certain stats for equipping certain articles, it makes sense), but I'm still not attracted by this idea. :argue:


Well, the idea was that by the time you could use the giant sword, your character would be high enough of a level to do that sort of damage.  But, if you read a few more posts down, you realize that I try to include strength and intelligence in the damage calculations, because those certainly are important as well.

Roots wrote:> About elemental damage thresholds causing certain status changes: :approve: with reservations
I don't think there should be a numerical limit of "if ICE DAMAGE > 30, add effect slow". The reason being is that it's too hard to balance numbers like that, and I can totally see this getting out of control and just having everything afflict its status on everything at one point in the game. Instead, I think that everything should be done in probability's, and there should never be a 100% effective rate. For example, "% slow effect = max(ice damage / some_val, 0.65). I dunno, I just don't want to see status effects getting out of hand. :uhoh:

Oh, absolutely.  I agree 100% here.  Your way makes much, much, much more sense.

Roots wrote:So those are my opinions on your three major points, and I think we need more opinions and discussion on them to make a decision. I am still against throwing out stats such as attack/defense/intelligence etc though, or only having those stats be used for equipping certain things. :| Let's try and keep the flaming to a minimum guys ;)
 
Yeah guys, lets get  some more decisions in here.  Consider it your first real chance to DESIGN an entire part of a game!
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Postby Roots » Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:16 pm

visage wrote:Okay, but how does it make sense that Claudius can use "ENORMOUS SWORD OF DEATH!" ... as well as Lailia?  Why should Claudius be able to use "REALLY  POWERFUL PUZZLE OF DEATH" when he is intellectually unable to use it?


That's simple. Not everyone can equip everything. Claudius can't equip magical fairy ribbons, just as Laila can't weild any swords. My idea has always been defining some bit-mask on each weapon/armor saying who can equip it and who can't. But you may have a better idea. :shrug:

visage wrote:Perhaps the player can still equip the items, but if the player is too weak, they cannot conduct any skills that use the weapon (they literally cannot lift it), and if they don't have the intellectual level, none of the elemental things work (they don't have the intelligence to understand how to use the elemental properties on the item)

Thoughts?


If it's going to be basically useless, then they shouldn't be allowed to equip it at all. I still think this whole "equipment coupled with character stats" thing just makes things more complicated and doesn't really make the game any more fun or strategic. :| Feel free to try and prove to me otherwise though, but so far I'm not buying into it. :disapprove:

visage wrote:Okay, well, perhaps instead of a general "defense" stat, like you are recommending, each character could have a list of physical resistances and elemental resistances that come into play for every time they have to defend.  Then, the original "armor," which is just flesh, could have stats of all 0.

These stats would increase with levels, just like others.

You make a good point that I overlooked, and it makes perfect sense to allow for what you said.  Does my solution sound good?


Why, oh why do we have to define so many defense values for each character? I am *really* concerned about this, because that means now instead of having one or two (physical/magical) defense stats to worry about, we have to worry about like 8-10! :ohnoes: Having this many defenses would make balancing the game fairly become much, much more difficult!!! :uhoh:

That's why I want these four stats: Physical Attack Power, Magical Attack Power, Phyiscal Defense Power, Magical Defense Power. Any elemental bonuses to either attack or defense comes from the character's equipment, or special support skills/items that are used on the character. How does that sound to you?

visage wrote:Oh, absolutely.  I agree 100% here.  Your way makes much, much, much more sense.


Glad to hear it. :D



I want to see more people posting opinions in this thread! Don't let visage and I alone decide on this, or you may regret it! :devil:
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Postby visage » Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:13 pm

That's simple. Not everyone can equip everything. Claudius can't equip magical fairy ribbons, just as Laila can't weild any swords. My idea has always been defining some bit-mask on each weapon/armor saying who can equip it and who can't. But you may have a better idea. :shrug:

Works for me

Roots wrote:If it's going to be basically useless, then they shouldn't be allowed to equip it at all. I still think this whole "equipment coupled with character stats" thing just makes things more complicated and doesn't really make the game any more fun or strategic. :| Feel free to try and prove to me otherwise though, but so far I'm not buying into it. :disapprove:

Well, the above handles it, so trash this idea.

Roots wrote:Why, oh why do we have to define so many defense values for each character? I am *really* concerned about this, because that means now instead of having one or two (physical/magical) defense stats to worry about, we have to worry about like 8-10! :ohnoes: Having this many defenses would make balancing the game fairly become much, much more difficult!!! :uhoh:

That's why I want these four stats: Physical Attack Power, Magical Attack Power, Phyiscal Defense Power, Magical Defense Power. Any elemental bonuses to either attack or defense comes from the character's equipment, or special support skills/items that are used on the character. How does that sound to you?


Superb.   :approve:
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Postby Rain » Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:37 pm

Hmmm 4 battle variables only?  What about skills such as luck which predetermine the chances of landing a heavy blow?  Or perhaps variables involving speed which differentiates a fast character from a slow one?
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Postby gorzuate » Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:34 pm

Here are my thoughts.

visage proposed intelligence, strength, etc. for equipping items, Roots proposed a simple bit-mask. The bit-mask I think is... uninspiring. How do you convey the bit-mask to the player? The only way is either through the story by portraying each character as having certain traits. But the player isn't required to read the story to play the game. So this has to be done in game, and a lot of it has to do with how the character looks, i.e. their sprite. Yeah it could be done also with dialogue or something. But the sprite does a lot when defining a character.

Well, I like the intelligence, strength, etc. idea better. Roots said it may "potentially frustrate the player". Nah, I don't think so. This is an RPG, so player's should be used to that stuff by now. Certainly if they enjoy playing RPGs I doubt this will bother them. And I think a bit mask is internal to the code, and it could still be used together with the intelligence and strength properties of a character. Well, maybe, I haven't really thought it about it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that to me, as the player, it makes more sense to say, "Oh Laila can't equip that because she isn't strong enough", rather than just arbitrarily say, "Sorry, Laila can not equip this item".

This way may make the game harder to balance, but everything has it's tradeoffs.

Roots wrote:> For having a base state of 0 with no armor: Indifferent
I see your point (HP amount == natural defense) but I still don't quite agree. How then, do we make a character who has a natural strong phyiscal resistance but a weak magical resistance? (Imagine a bulky warrior) And then how do I create a character with high mag defense, but low natural defense? In your system, you simply can't because defense is all about armor. Upset Sure, you could set both characters with a high HP, but you couldn't make a magician appear to be resistant to magic and a warrior resistant to physical, unless you supplied very specific armors to each of them.


This is also where intelligence, strength, etc. would come in handy. Let's use your bulky warrior as an example. He would have high strength and low intelligence, making him have a "naturally strong physical resistance but a weak magical resistance". Similary for a mage. He (or she) would have high intelligence and low strength, giving him or her a "high mag defense but low natural defense".

This method also has nothing to do with armor. Armor has been decoupled from this, and is totally separate. However, visage's idea of having flesh armor have stats of all 0 could still hold in this case.

There is nothing wrong with Root's idea of having 4 stats: Physical Attack, Physical Defense, Magical Attack, and Magical defense. I don't have a problem with this, and we could very well do it this way. But then, like I already said, I would prefer knowing that a character is strong enough to use a weapon rather than just arbitrarily being told he can use such a weapon, and if strength and intelligence are used in that way, we might as well include them in damage calculations as well.

Using probability for damage calculations is also a good idea.
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Postby Roots » Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:48 pm

Rain wrote:Hmmm 4 battle variables only?  What about skills such as luck which predetermine the chances of landing a heavy blow?  Or perhaps variables involving speed which differentiates a fast character from a slow one?


We're just talking about the basic formulae right now. Things like luch, etc. stats can be factored in later.


gorzuate wrote:The bit-mask I think is... uninspiring. How do you convey the bit-mask to the player? The only way is either through the story by portraying each character as having certain traits. But the player isn't required to read the story to play the game.


FYI: This "bit-mask" system was done in all the old classic RPGs, all the way back to the very first Final Fantasy. A warrior couldn't equip a mage's staff, and a mage couldn't equip heavy armor. I see what point you are trying to make here for the stats requirement, but you know what that is going to create? A hell of a lot more balancing work for us. That's what it will create. I don't want to make balancing Allacrost any harder than it's already going to be with MAPS and stuff, and especially are modular release system.

As for the player needing to "know the traits of characters", that should be intuitive. The story is in the game. It's not like the player is completely going to ignore it! They'll know that Claudius is a knight, Laila is a hottie, etc. I don't see what point you are trying to make here. :shrug:

Yes, visage's stat-system sounds cooler than just a simple bit-mask saying who can equip what, but IMO, it's a lot more work for us and it doesn't do much to make the player enjoy the game more. :(

gorzuate wrote:Roots said it may "potentially frustrate the player". Nah, I don't think so. This is an RPG, so player's should be used to that stuff by now.


I find that to be a very irresponsible statement. So it's okay if we add some feature that is frusterating to the player because "they are used to it"? First of all, we can't assume everyone playing this game is going to be a hardcore RPG fanatic. Second of all, I used to love RPGs a lot, but they kept making the system more and more complex and on some of the recent games I've played I just want to :axe:
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Postby gorzuate » Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:15 pm

Roots wrote:Yes, visage's stat-system sounds cooler than just a simple bit-mask saying who can equip what, but IMO, it's a lot more work for us and it doesn't do much to make the player enjoy the game more. :(


Yeah, it would be more work for us. But I think that it would make the player enjoy the game more.

Roots wrote:
gorzuate wrote:Roots said it may "potentially frustrate the player". Nah, I don't think so. This is an RPG, so player's should be used to that stuff by now.


I find that to be a very irresponsible statement. So it's okay if we add some feature that is frusterating to the player because "they are used to it"? First of all, we can't assume everyone playing this game is going to be a hardcore RPG fanatic. Second of all, I used to love RPGs a lot, but they kept making the system more and more complex and on some of the recent games I've played I just want to :axe:


Hmm, okay let me rephrase what I said. I don't think this is a frustrating feature for the player, I myself enjoy it, and so, I guess I was saying it won't frustrate the player because it isn't a frustrating feature :heh:
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Postby visage » Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:21 pm

Gorz, you barely dodged the bullet there buddy  :heh:

I think I am going to type up a summary post from everything we have said and agreed on, and things we are still debating so that it makes it easier for people to join in.  Expect it in an hour or two.
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Postby visage » Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:11 pm

TOPICS FINALIZED:

Status effects last after battle
No, they don't.  Case closed.

Status effects are permanent during battle unless cured.
Yes, they do.

Attacking multiple MAPs
Some attacks will hit multiple attack points.  The damage will be the aggregate of the damage caused to each point.

Tie in Attack Points to Status Ailments
Certain attacks to certain points may cause distinct status ailments.  For example, ice to the leg may not only cause "frozen" but "slow" as well.  

Armor and Weapons have Attack Types and Stats
People seemed to like my idea that each armor and weapon has its own individual physical and elemental attack levels.  I think this was decided to be incorporated.  

IF YOU HAVE ANY RESERVATIONS ABOUT ANY OF THESE, SPEAK NOW OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE!

TOPICS TO DISCUSS:

Spells and the surrounding area
The idea is that a spells effectiveness is determined partly by the surrounding area.  A cool idea, but I don't personally think we need it.  

General items for status effect cures
We will not have specific items for each status effect seems to be the general consensus.  More "general."  How general, we have yet to decide.  Perhaps we can clump effects into "damaging," "paralyzing," etc.  As well, if we go with the "lesser -> greater" system, should there be "lesser -> greater" potions?  Can a potion only cure one ailment at a time?  Or should a "lesser damage potion" cure all "damaging effects (poison, burn)"?  As well, if we go with the "lesser -> greater" system, and I use a lesser potion on a medium effect, should it lower it one level?  If I have "higher poison" (level 5), and use "medium remedy (level 3)", should I then get (lesser poison (level 2)"?  

Elements and such
We have all decided to use a small number of pair-wise elements (8-10).  People seemed to like my "align towards astrological body/god" sort of idea...but nobody has proposed how we design these.  Thoughts?  

Lesser -> Greater Damage system
Nobody commented on this.  I personally like it.  The idea is that if I hit you with poison, but it is a weak attack (% wise on your current amount of health), you do a certain poison level.  So, maybe I only hit for 5% of your current health ... I may only give you "minor poison."  However, if I hit you for 20%, maybe it is "medium poison."  I like this way of doing it because the weaker a character gets, the greater their chance of getting an ailment...which seems fairly realistic to me.  Also, if you already have "lesser poison" and I hit you with another "lesser poison," you may be raised to "medium poison."

So, the discussion should be "do you like this, and how many levels should there be?"

I think 5: Lesser, Lower, Medium, Higher, Greater

Should this be told to the player, or displayed through color (lesser = green, medium = yellow, greater = red)?

Ailments
Okay, well, we have decided that casting certain elemental effects in different spots has a chance of adding an ailment.  Ice on the foot may cause slowness, fire in the face may be blindness.  I think we should come up with a definite list of ailments, and what they do.  Here are mine:

(please note that these are "generalized."  You may hurt them with "GREAT FIREBALL," but you are burning the character.  Hence, they get a burn effect.)

Negative Effects:
Burnt -- You lose a small amount of hp per turn
Frozen -- Can't move
Sleep -- Can't move, asleep.  Woken by next attack
Confused -- Uncontrollable character.  "Berzerk."  May do damage to ally.
Blind -- Less chance of hitting.
Slow -- SP increases slowly, and less chance of ability to retreating
Silence -- Can not perform encantation based skills (ehhh...iffy)
Afraid -- Attack damage cut in half

Positive Effects:
Should there be anything?  Something like "courage" that increases damage or maybe "fortitude" which cuts damage taken in half.  

What does it take to equip a piece of armor, et cetera?
There are two sides right now...sort of me versus Roots (though, I think we see where the other is coming from...)

Roots (correct me if I am wrong): Use a bitmask to define what a character can use.  Claudius cannot use a staff, because he is not of "mage type."  Requires less balancing (major bonus), but less realistic and less customization.  However, it does allow us to "guide" the story by allowing on Claudius to wield certain weapons, et cetera.

Me: Anyone can use any item, as long as they have the "strength" and "intelligence" to utilize it.  For example, if my strength is not great enough, I cannot wield it in battle.  If my intelligence is not great enough, I cannot use its magical properties.  This way, anyone can use any item, but may not be effective with it.  This is more realistic, and personally, I like it more because it allows more customization...but forces a lot more balancing work on us.

(I hope I wasn't too biased there...)

The BASIC stats
Currently, we have "strength", "intelligence", and "speed."

Roots is also saying that there should be an "attack" and "defense" stat (maybe attack physical, attack elemental, defense physical, defense elemental).  

I am saying that those are taken care of by what a character can wield.  If my character can wield "great sword of doom," then the damage characteristics of that sword negate the need for an "attack" statistic.  We already know that my character can do that much damage.  However, at the same time, a characters damage cannot be entirely based on the weapon.  My level 500 claudius should still be able to do more damage with "kitchen knife" than my level 5, which my system does not currently allow.  Thus, I am attempting to incorporate both strength and intelligence into the damage and defense calculations.  

This definitely needs more thought.  I am even starting to sway the way of Roots (what a convincing dude), but I think both sides should be talked about.  Perhaps a little merger can be made.  




Phew.  This is on the wiki, by the way.
Last edited by visage on Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Steu » Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:23 pm

Just a couple things, I definately think we should somehow incorporate positive status effects, not completely sure how.  Maybe do something like when a teammate might happen to fall, the rest of the party gets a vengence buff or something like that.  I love positive buffs :D  

Now the stat vs bit-mask issue.  I personally don't mind either BUT (there's always a but) if you go with stats determining if you can equip a certain piece of equipment, then you should be able to direct your stats, when you lvl up.  If upon lvl up, stats are automatically assigned, and stats determine if you can equip the weapon, then all we've done is created a very convoluted bit-mask.  :heh:
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Postby visage » Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:26 pm

Not necessarily.  All I am saying is that Lalia, naturally weaker than Claudius, can use his "enormous blade" at level 50, when Claudius was only level 30 when he used it, because she is naturally weaker.

So, yes and no.  I think it isn't just a convoluted bitmask, but more of a suggestion of character growth.
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Postby Roots » Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:44 pm

Finalized topics all look good to me. :approve:

visage wrote:Spells and the surrounding area


I also :disapprove: Too much work, not enough gain.

visage wrote:General items for status effect cures
1. Perhaps we can clump effects into "damaging," "paralyzing," etc.

2. As well, if we go with the "lesser -> greater" system, should there be "lesser -> greater" potions?

3. Can a potion only cure one ailment at a time?

4. Or should a "lesser damage potion" cure all "damaging effects (poison, burn)"?

5. As well, if we go with the "lesser -> greater" system, and I use a lesser potion on a medium effect, should it lower it one level?


1. I don't like the clumping idea (we've discussed it before). :disapprove: It's too much of a pain to remember what potions cure what ailments, and then the player always needs to have a stock of each type of 'clump..

2. I think so, yes.

3. I want to say no here. :| The reason is, if I'm affected with frozen and burn and poison and silence, it's a pain in the ass to use up 4 turns to cure all those. :frustrated: I'm not sure of the details of how to let potions cure more than one thing. I have some ideas, but I don't want to get into them here and make this post too lengthy.

4. I don't think that potions should cure *all* effects either. They can cure a multitude effects, but not necessarily all (unless its a super-duper potion)

5.  Yes.

visage wrote:Elements and such
We have all decided to use a small number of pair-wise elements (8-10).  People seemed to like my "align towards astrological body/god" sort of idea...but nobody has proposed how we design these.  Thoughts?


What exactly the elements are/where they come from is only important to the story, not really the battle engine. I can come up with a couple propositions for astro bodies/gods or something else at a later time. I would like to say that personally, I would like the number of physical elements be equal to the number of magical elements, although I'm flexible on this.

visage wrote:Lesser -> Greater Damage system
Nobody commented on this.  I personally like it.  So, the discussion should be "do you like this, and how many levels should there be?"

I think 5: Lesser, Lower, Medium, Higher, Greater

Should this be told to the player, or displayed through color (lesser = green, medium = yellow, greater = red)?


I love it. :approve: I think 5 levels might be a bit high. Three levels, or maybe 4 sounds better to me personally. I just don't want to make the battle system more complicated than it already is I guess, but I'm flexible on this as well. (Definitely no more than 5 though!!!)

I think colors are the best way of conveying this info to the player. :approve:


visage wrote:Ailments
Negative Effects:
Burnt -- You lose a small amount of hp per turn
Frozen -- Can't move
Sleep -- Can't move, asleep.  Woken by next attack
Confused -- Uncontrollable character.  "Berzerk."  May do damage to ally.
Blind -- Less chance of hitting.
Slow -- SP increases slowly, and less chance of ability to retreating
Silence -- Can not perform encantation based skills (ehhh...iffy)
Afraid -- Attack damage cut in half

Positive Effects:
Should there be anything?  Something like "courage" that increases damage or maybe "fortitude" which cuts damage taken in half.  


Remember that these effects need to be lesser->greater, so none of them can be all or none (ie, you can be 'partially asleep'). I'll come up with my own list later, I have some ideas (mostly just mods of your list Corey).

I totally think that there should be positive effects. That's basically what the whole Support Skill set is about. :approve: Don't forget that we have the idea of developing temporary resistances to certain ailments as well. :)

visage wrote:What does it take to equip a piece of armor, et cetera?

This definitely needs more thought.  


Agreed.

visage wrote:I am even starting to sway the way of Roots (what a convincing dude), but I think both sides should be talked about.  Perhaps a little merger can be made.


That's why I'm the dictator. :devil: Fear my powers of propaganda! :heh: Seriously though, merging the two ideas somehow doesn't sound like a bad idea. I want other people to discuss it though, to get some fresh perspectives on the subject.
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Postby Roots » Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:52 pm

Damn you people for posting before me. :bash:

visage wrote:Not necessarily.  All I am saying is that Lalia, naturally weaker than Claudius, can use his "enormous blade" at level 50, when Claudius was only level 30 when he used it, because she is naturally weaker.

So, yes and no.  I think it isn't just a convoluted bitmask, but more of a suggestion of character growth.


Yeah, that's another point I wanted to make. It doesn't make sense that Laila can wield a sword. Weapons are not something you can just pick up and suddenly be proficient at it; I know this from experience. It takes a lot of damn practice to be good at something, and just because Laila can shoot a bow doesn't mean she can automatically pick up a sword and hack away with it either. Do you see my point here? Plus, think about the battle sprites. If Claudius was equipped with a spear, but he's sprite still shows him holding a sword.... :uhoh: Not a very attractive scenario I think.


For a merger of the two sides (if we do one) I think that there should be the bit-mask thing, and then maybe some of the more powerful weapons/armor also have a stat requirement, meaning that they can't be used right away. :shrug:


I don't really like the idea of allowing the player to assign direct points on level-ups to their stats (a.la Diablo), mostly because of that balancing issue again. But maybe we could allow the player to assign a "growth direction" instead. So if I align Claudius' growth direction to physical strength, then on a level-up the stats points that he gets are automatically assigned to align towards that level (ie, more strength and HP points, less defense and intelligence). That way, the player (hopefully) can't find a cheap hole in the system where they only increase their strength points on a level-up, and then after 20 levels or so they are a one-hit killing machine. Just a thought. :shrug:
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Postby visage » Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:50 am

Roots wrote:What exactly the elements are/where they come from is only important to the story, not really the battle engine. I can come up with a couple propositions for astro bodies/gods or something else at a later time. I would like to say that personally, I would like the number of physical elements be equal to the number of magical elements, although I'm flexible on this.


Well, it is sort of important code wise, as thats how I think I am putting in the stats (as in, level of JUPITER alignment, or something like that...)
But, personally, I don't think the number of physical should be equal to the number of elemental.  It is totally unnecessary.  As well, if you can come up with more than "slash, pierce, and bludgeon" I would be very impressed.

Roots wrote:I love it. :approve: I think 5 levels might be a bit high. Three levels, or maybe 4 sounds better to me personally. I just don't want to make the battle system more complicated than it already is I guess, but I'm flexible on this as well. (Definitely no more than 5 though!!!)

I think colors are the best way of conveying this info to the player. :approve:


5 would be my max.  Personally, I think 5 is about right.  And definitely color conveying...

Any comments on the % thing?


Roots wrote:Remember that these effects need to be lesser->greater, so none of them can be all or none (ie, you can be 'partially asleep'). I'll come up with my own list later, I have some ideas (mostly just mods of your list Corey).


Alright, don't keep me hanging ;)

Roots wrote:I totally think that there should be positive effects. That's basically what the whole Support Skill set is about. :approve: Don't forget that we have the idea of developing temporary resistances to certain ailments as well. :)


:approve:



By the way, I think our merger is going to have to come from the mind of someone else  :D  Someone who has a more objective view (you know....some of you OTHER developers)
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Postby Roots » Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:55 am

Or, we could move this thread to the design forum and get even more feedback from our registered members?
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Postby visage » Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:58 am

I don't see why not.  I put it on the wiki....so its public anyway.
Lets go ahead and move it.
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Postby visage » Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:25 am

Common dudes, feedback is needed.
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Postby Burnsaber » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:30 pm

Some opininons from a non-developer.

- Definately go with the "Claudius doesn't wield staffs" - thing. Ability to control your characters development and combat abilities is always a great thing, but customability isn't necessarily about having your party mage wield a greatsword. A mage might not be doomed to be "bland-mage", he can be Fire sorcerer, illusionist, astrologist, Ice sorcerer, Necromancer etc. So by choosing skills carefully players could develop Claudius into  "Knightly protector" (I'll jump in front of that attack so Laila doesn't take damage!) - type fighter or "Strong Hitter" with high damage or "Tank" with high amount of HP  etc..

- About that Cure stuff and multiple status thiniges on one poor character. I think that you shouldn't do too many of status "levels" (i think combat is going to get quite confusing with too many variables and thing to remember), 5 is too many i think. 4 sounds about right. Maybe the colors could be from mild to strong (green -> yellow -> red -> black).

Now to the multiple stauts thingies on one character issue. You are game developers. If you think that monster that inflincts 4 different types of status effects is annoying, don't desing one (expect on rare cases  :devil:).

- not prrofread: Simpsons started about a minute ago!! Gotta go!
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Postby Roots » Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:47 pm

Thanks for the feedback BS. :)


4 levels of status sounds about right to me. I think we should have 3 common levels (weak, medium, strong) and then the final level can be ultra-powerful and is only caused by bosses or other special enemies. The final level will be the most powerful, rare, and most disabilitating of the other 3. So I think 3 status levels + 1 special leve is what I vote for. :approve:


It's not really that monsters are designed to inflict different types of status effects. It's that the nature of our battle system itself presents that situation. Just from a normal attack to the legs, there's a small chance that the character's speed might be reduced. Or a strong knock to the head might cause some dizzyness. It's those effects that I'm personally concerned about. I think they are good to have because they make battles more interesting and strategically engaging, but at the same time I don't want to have to use 4 status healing potions from 4 character turns just to cure my character, and then have him get afflicted with status again after that.
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