Battle Design Topics

A discussion area for general design issues that staff would like detailed feedback on.

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Roots
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Postby Roots » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:34 pm

Thanks for the ideas BS. :approve: Yeah, I agree that we should not go overboard with the number of status effects. I feel that from FFIX and onward, a lot of games did this (the typical 'more is better' mindset?). I remember in FFIX there was poison/antidote and virus/vaccinee, among tons of other status effects. I got really tired of all the effects, especially on the final boss in that game.
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Postby Roots » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:26 am

Since I've been messing around with the global code a lot lately, I've had to remind myself of this thread and what we decided upon here already. :) I figured that this information really belongs on a wiki page, so I started one and summarized some of this information (mostly the info about status effects and elemental effects).

http://allacrost.sourceforge.net/wiki/i ... tle_System


You'll see that I made some changes to the names of physical elements. I changed "slashing" to "slicing", I changed "bludgeoning" to "smashing", and I added a fourth type: "mauling". I think that the four are disparate enough in name and in meaning that it should be easy enough to distinguish between them all. :)


Go ahead and fill in more information of that page if you have time/knowledge. :angel:
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Postby Roots » Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:55 am

I just thought of something while :hack:ing on the code tonight. What about status effects that can go both ways (both aiding and ailing)? For example, an increase or decrease in strength? If I have +1 strength status effect and an enemy attacks with a skill that causes -3 to strength, is it not a -2 strength effect? Or do I now have two status effects, one with a +1 strength and another with a -2? :huh:


Do we want all status effects to be double-sided like that? There could be poison versus regen, for example. Although some effects might not make any sense to have an opposite (i.e., "sleep" or "mute"). Then again, it all depends on which effects we decide to use. :eyespin:


For now I'm leaving this issue open (in the code) until we decide on something I guess. :shrug:
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Postby Roots » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:11 am

Some more thoughts (some of which I modified the wiki page to reflect).


Elemental effects are done on a per-actor basis, not a per-attack point basis

Having elemental effects apply to each attack point is unneedlessly complicated for the player. It would also be extremel tedious to have to set elemental properties of each attack point.


Status effects are not permanent in battle

In other words, they can, and will, weaken in severity and initally become nullified with time. This is contrary to what I think we decided upon before. I've been thinking about it lately, and it would just be too easy for the player to exploit the status effects system to make battles a breeze if they had the solice of knowing that their effects are permanent (e.g., they could boost their speed, strength, and defense to full and as long as the enemy doesn't have the skill/ability to weaken them, the player would never look back).

Of course the effect wouldn't just immediately die out, but rather we could have it weaken in intensity through all the levels before it is completely nullified.

Names of status effect intensities

I think we should call "severity" "intensity" instead, because the word severity has negative connotations associated with it and not all status effects are ailing ones. I also chaged the names from "lesser, normal, major, ultimate" to "lesser, moderate, major, extreme", just because it sounded better to me. :shrug:

Swapping out of heavily damaged characters is allowed

In the past I think we said that characters who have less than 25% health can not be swapped out of battle. Thinking about this limit though, it just doesn't make any sense. Wouldn't you want to swap out your characters that are taking the heaviest beating? I think that we should just make swap cards harder to come by instead, which leads me to my next point.

How swap cards are generated

I think there should be two ways. One is the simple passage of time. Say, every 5 minutes or so a new swap card is given to the player. The second is the amount of damage that the player inflicts on the enemy party. Let's suppose that after inflicting damage of over 25% of the total HP for all enemy characters, a swap card is given to the player as a reward. These two methods are not mutually exclusive either: you could inflict 12.5% damage and wait for 2.5 minutes of time to pass and those two "halves" would each sum up to one full swap card granted to the player.

Of course the numbers are totally arbitrary right now and will need refinement. Furthermore I'm a little considered about a static limit of "25% of enemy party's HP", because some of the easier battles could pop out swap cards like they were nothing, whereas a tough boss battle would make it much, much harder to get a swap card based on HP damage. :|



BTW: none of these statements I am making here are meant to say "this is how its gonna be because I said its gonna be this way". They are just my thoughts, and anyone is free to debate or attack them. In fact, please do because doing so would be a productive and meaningful discussion. :)
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Postby Loodwig » Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:17 am

This may be "me being lazy and not finding this post already made," but, do we know what all the status effects are, what they do, and how they can have varied severity?
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Postby gorzuate » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:36 pm

Oh come on, you know that Ultimate sounds way more cool than Extreme :heh:

As for swap card generation, every 5 min seems a little too often, no? :shrug: Plus, in your scenario it could be quite possible to get 2 swap cards after a battle (i.e. the player deals enough damage to earn 1 swap card, and enough time passes by to earn another swap card.). Unless the timer is reset after each generated swap card, that is. I dunno, it all just sounds too easy to me.
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Postby Roots » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:36 pm

Joe: no we do not have any list of status effects that we are set on, but there have been several proposals in a few different threads (including this one). Deciding upon these is not a critical issue though since it should be easy enough to define a new one pretty easily.


Phil: yeah I agree, but like I said those were just arbitrary numbers I threw out there. Also I guess I didn't make the overlap between gaining swap cards by time or by damage clear enough. Think of it in terms of little steps instead of an "all at once" deal. Say for every 15 seconds that passes, 1% of a swap card is given. Likewise every 0.5% of damage that you deal to the enemy party, another 1% of a swap card is given. Once the accumulation of time + damage reaches 100%, a swap card is passed out and the cycle continues.
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